S1, Ep 2: The T-Bone: A Deep Dive with Blane Chocklett

Marvin Cash: 00:00:04

Hey, folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of the Butcher Shop where we interview OG and young gun angler Tires who craft and fish the deadliest streamers in the game. On the inaugural interview is my buddy, Blane Chocklett.

We take a deep dive into the T bone and discuss everything from materials that didn't make the cut to hook and shank configurations to how to fish the T bone.

I think you're really going to enjoy this one, but before we get to the interview, just a couple of housekeeping items to make sure you don't miss a single episode of the Butcher Shop. Be sure to subscribe in the podcatcher of your choice. We're only distributing episodes on the Articulate Fly for a limited time.

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ArtFly20 all one word for 20% off of your Trout Routes Pro membership at maps.troutroutes.com now on to our interview. Well, Blaine, welcome to the Butcher Shop.

Blane Chocklett: 00:01:32

Thanks for having me, man.

Marvin Cash: 00:01:34

Oh, dude, I'm excited. I'm honored that you are going to be the first guest on the brand new podcast.

Blane Chocklett: 00:01:39

Yeah, I'm excited to hear all the stories that are going to be coming from this. It's a great idea, great concept, and I think all the listeners are going to love the history of streamer evolution.

And you know, there's been a lot of legends that I've been very fortunate to know and been mentored by. And you know, I look forward to seeing what all you do with this. I know we've been talking about it for quite a while.

Glad to see it coming to fruition.

Marvin Cash: 00:02:10

Yeah, absolutely.

And so folks, just the general format for the interviews, and we've got some other types of content coming too, is I'm going to take one pattern per tire because we just can't cover everything that like Blaine's done in one interview or Russ or Tommy or Kelly. And we're just going to pull that Pattern apart. So hopefully you like it.

And you know, Blaine, if we kind of jump back in the time machine, go way, way, way back in time to the pre T bone time. Right. What was the fishing problem you were trying to solve when you started designing the t bone?

Blane Chocklett: 00:02:45

Well, I thought it'd be a great idea to start being a fly fishing muskie guide.

And that all goes back way back to when I was like 9 or 10 years old, early teens or whatnot, and fishing with my uncle on the river and hooking up with a muskie on a jerk bait and didn't know they were in there, didn't know what a muskie was at that time. And then moving forward a little bit with Dahlberg and his show with Walker's, I mean not Flip, but Dahlberg's the hunt for big fish.

He was catching muskies on a fly and I was like, well I've got that in my backyard.

And it re sparked that interest of trying to make that happen and guiding for smallmouth bass later on moving into the 90s, you know, I'd see muskies and their normal spots during different parts of the year. And started fishing with a buddy of mine that was the only person I knew growing up that fly fished.

And he ended up as we graduated high school and and all he met a guy that he started fishing with conventionally with muskie and us being good buddies and learning the fly stuff by Harrison Steves and Steve Heiner. Early on we were like 15, 16 years old.

He was the only person like I said that back then, way before Internet and all that stuff, that was the only body, only person I knew that fly fished. So we became friends and he was a good tire in his own right and understood fishing and all aspects, not just fly.

And he was a good all around angler. Still is. His name's David Gar. Good buddy.

Even though we don't see each other much, but seeing these muskies in these different areas and wanting to kind of learn more about them and, and all I just wasn't getting a lot of interest in and throwing different things and you're, you're Talking about early 90s, mid-90s time frame and that same time era. I started going to shows with Harry Steves who was my mentor and we started Loco Foam together.

I was introduced to Bob Popovic who's going to be mentioned probably a lot during your interviews and all. But Bobby, we just lost here back in November was always just a huge sounding board for me.

Good friend and, and mentor and his reverse style of tying was kind of my aha moment with a lot of things with starting to get muskies to start looking at what I'm throwing, because I fished with my buddy Dave, and after my guided trips, I'd meet him and we'd go out to spots where I knew fish were hanging because I'd seen him many times and, you know, he'd give me the first shot at fishing, and I'd throw different deceiver style flies and whatnot and occasionally maybe get a follow. Usually nothing.

And then after that hour, I would say, well, you, you throw gear at him and he'd get a bite within the first couple casts after, you know, And I was like, well, I'm just not throwing stuff that's getting their attention or creating those triggers that make these fish want to eat.

Blane Chocklett: 00:06:16

Right.

Blane Chocklett: 00:06:17

So that was a real learning curve for me because I didn't have anything else to go by.

And then, then we kind of go into the Bob Popovic beast fly reverse tying thing back when he started playing with that, and that really changed everything. So I don't know if you want me to keep going on that or any.

Marvin Cash: 00:06:40

Absolutely, keep going.

Blane Chocklett: 00:06:42

Okay. So. So anyway, Bob's beef flies started getting some attention, so I just kind of started putting my own twists on it.

And, you know, muskies don't give you a lot of positive reinforcement, but you got to take any little bit you get from them. They are known as the fish of 10,000 cast. One of the top five fish in the world to try to get on any tackle, you know, so.

So I'd start just kind of with sweat equity and blood, sweat and tears, just being stubborn and not giving up. Just started picking away at it and figuring out, you know, what are these triggers and all this stuff.

And, you know, I met a, a friend that's a fisheries biologist and studies fish vision and understands their biologic makeup. His name's Andre or Disky. And he. I would just bounce ideas off of him and he's a, a fly designer with uncle feather merchants.

And, you know, even though he's his main feature and main target is saltwater species, you know, he has, he has a broad view of different fish and how they view things. And I was just talking to him about triggers and fish and they're. And he starts talking to me about biologic makeup and what makes them work.

And we're talking about the gear and the different lures that my buddy was getting fish on. And he would explain that to me and, you know, look at how they're designed and what they do. And that's.

Just started working from there and, and started designing stuff and, and every little bit I got, it was a positive, right? So I started, you know, getting follows or occasionally get a fish to come in on an 8 figure 8 or whatnot, and just started picking away at it.

And, you know, the beast fly was a big deal because I had the profile silhouette and had the presence in the water to make them become a little bit more interested.

And I went so far back in the day that my buddy was using these bucktails, and we call them bucktails because it's, they're tied with bucktail, but they have a, a big spinner blade in front of them.

So I even made, I even took it to that extreme where I basically bent wire, made a long shank, tied a bucktail at the back end with a hook and put a clevis on there where in beads, where it would spin around.

And then I took a paper clip and bent it, folded it over to make a U shape and then bent it to make a spoon shape and then took tape, which is more like Christmas ornament or Christmas ribbon, and I took 3M77 spray and sprayed it to where it made the shape of that, that bent spoon. And I took a spoon and then traced the outline of that and cut it out into a spoon and epoxied it.

So then I had a light enough lure fly to be able to throw, and it worked, but it was terrible to cast. So it wasn't fly fishing at that point. But I did get interested in fish and caught fish on it.

But it was just like, this is not, this is not what fly fishing is all about. Might as well be throwing a bait caster.

So going back to Bob's deal, one of the big things was, you know, he just had that profile silhouette that made, that was getting interest, but it wasn't a hundred percent triggering him because his whole concept was to create that illusion of mass and profile and silhouette, but still making it castable and all. And even though it was there, it just didn't have that final trigger that I was needing.

Which muskies, they're designed with big teeth, long mouths, long body shapes.

So fish like that, I've learned over years and trial and error and fishing and guiding that fish that are shaped like that, and this includes a big brown trout, once they get in that 20 plus inch range, their mouths get bigger, they get, they get bigger teeth, and they're designed to grasp and hold onto Their prey items.

So one of the big things that Andre was telling me that what you need to start designing is there are flies that will move, turn sideways in the water and show pro profile and silhouette, much like a jackknife or. Or. Or truck jackknifing or, you know, something sliding in the water to show profile silhouette.

Because obviously, I can't get that thump that you get from the blade of a spinner bait, and that's the main trigger there. That was speed. So you can't really get that with a fly. So I had to create ways of showing profile having enough mass, having enough.

I guess the term would be. I'm not gonna say push water, because Larry would shoot me because he hates that. It's like fingernails on a chalkboard.

But flies don't push water because it's. I'm not gonna get into that. I'll let Larry talk about that.

But anyway, it's just having enough presence in the water to make these fish realize that it's there, and it's worth taking a look at.

Blane Chocklett: 00:12:02

Right.

Blane Chocklett: 00:12:03

So. So then I just went into the.

What is now the T bone aspect, where Bob's fly was so light and airy, but it didn't have some of those triggers that I needed. But so I just basically took his platform and added to it, right.

So I put in these spreader dams because over time, a lot of casting, a lot of fishing, the flies would start collapsing because the resiliency of the bucktail would just start losing its. Its shape and would get snaked out and just wouldn't hold that profile and silhouette.

So I met a guy at these shows years ago who's a famous striper guy out of northeast. His name's Rich Murphy, who's an engineer, and he showed me this tubing at a show. He said, you know, I played with this stuff, but I don't know you.

You're innovative. Maybe you can figure out something to do with it. So I brought that home, started playing around with it, and again, this was.

This would have been in the 90s, mid-90s, late-90s. And that's where the. The.

The body tubing came from, from Rich Murphy and started messing around with it with small flies at first, and that's where those fly pas came from. And, you know, my answer to a rapala fly, where I could a lip on it and get that same action.

But also, I went away from that because it wasn't a great casting fly. And although it does work well, it just. It's just not Fly fishing. So I just started playing around with that.

I was thinking about, man, how can I create this big body that's going to hold up and also divert water? And that's when I started figuring out how you when.

By diverting water flow through the fly, you can slow things down and create a pause and a stop and the fly will turn left or right up and down. And it started showing profile. So I just kept playing with that idea.

There's a lot of ways you can achieve that, but that was an easier way and a more consistent way to get a profile silhouette and have the same consistency throughout. Many flies tied right. So I started putting these body dams in with the body tubing, which is basically for those that may not know about it. It's.

It's basically kind of a Chinese finger puzzle. It's made out of nylon. So when you stretch it or push it together, it'll expand two to three times its normal size.

So I would melt it in, tie it in, cut it to a certain length, like 2 inches, melt that in, and then fold it over itself and then tie it back down and then push it back where it's. It created this cone or. Or trumpet. It looked like a trumpet for. But when you folded it back, it became like a perfect cone, basically, or a wider.

I don't know what term you want to use, but it just made this more of a. I don't know if I would say a bell shape, but it's similar to that. So I started putting fibers in front of it.

And it could be synthetic or bucktail, and you know, that it would hold its shape over time.

But also what I figured out over a while, one of the main features of it, it was diverting water from the inner part of the fly and pushing water around it, sliding it outside of the fly, which would allow it to swim. Because what happens when you allow material to flow through uninterrupted or without being deterred in a different direction?

It would just swim straight, right?

So by figuring out if I made a material in the middle of the fly that would divert water around, changed everything, which led into the game changer platform that I probably more noted for.

And just playing with that and different sizes, diameters and all that kind of stuff, I could create trout size, predator stuff to big musky stuff, to big striper stuff, to, you name it. So that was. That was kind of the big, I guess, genesis of the T bone concept and still is today.

And I've got things in the hopper moving forward to make that that. That process a lot better and faster and, and all that. And that's what fly design's all about, is taking a problem and trying to solve it. And that's.

That's the bob pop a big way. And I'm for firm believer in that.

Marvin Cash: 00:16:59

Yeah. Very, very neat.

So as you were kind of getting dialed in on that original T bone and you'd kind of gotten the reverse tile in the bucktail, and you'd figured out how to make these. These little mesh dams, were there any materials that you played with that just didn't make the final cut in the pattern?

Blane Chocklett: 00:17:17

You know, any. Any material that would hold water became a big negative early on because the flies became so big, kind of up to 15, 16 inches. 17 inches.

It just wasn't fun casting it.

Blane Chocklett: 00:17:31

Right.

Blane Chocklett: 00:17:32

So the big thing was finding materials that would shed water, but would hold shape and make casting better and hold up to, you know, hundreds of hours on the water, you know, that wouldn't break down. So, you know, and that's kind of the. The combination of synthetics and natural materials. You know, bucktail is, you know, we always.

And feathers are nature's armor. And, you know that it's a. It's a very resilient material. But there's. You have limitations on size and all that kind of stuff and availability.

Blane Chocklett: 00:18:10

Right.

Blane Chocklett: 00:18:11

So that's the big problem with natural fibers. Then you have the feathers that we put in at the back that have that nice swooshing motion at the end and. And all that, and they're all great.

And I love natural fibers, but you have limitations there. And it's not. Not really marketable to the masses because it's hard to. To get consistency on that stuff.

But that's where synthetics kind of come in and, and make. And kind of, I guess, make up for what natural fibers lack.

Marvin Cash: 00:18:43

Yeah. And so I would imagine. I mean, is it true? Cause I mean, I know now, you know, when you talk about the changer platform, you talk support and veil.

You know, was that tubing, reverse tie. Was that kind of the beginning of that concept that's kind of walked through from the T bone to today?

Blane Chocklett: 00:18:58

100%. It was.

You know, once I learned that I could prop up materials and create the profile that I wanted, you could manipulate that stuff and, and especially the size dam and. And the angles of it. You could make it taller and bigger and wider to create a bigger body.

And all that stuff affected how the fly swam in the water and how it reacted to what you did with your stripping line. And all that in itself was always a learning thing. It was a whole process, because I didn't have anybody to teach me any of this stuff.

So it was just, you know, I guess my God given talent that, you know, and I being stubborn and too dawn to quit. Um, it just. It was something that I was super passionate about and wanted to learn.

And, you know, selfishly, I was wanting to get myself back myself in that corner, because we had great muskie fishing, and I knew I could catch them on gear at any point. And I. I knew that if I kept on it, I would figure out a way to be able to get these on fly, because there was nobody fishing them at that time.

And it was. To be honest, it was virgin water. And it just. I mean, you know, the world was my oyster at that point.

And it was a great time growing up, and I happened to be in the right place at the right time. And, you know, I. Not giving up is really. And that's the big thing about fly design. It's not.

I never go to the desk trying to figure out a new pattern. It's always problem solving. Like Bob always said, a great fly always comes from solving a problem that you see on the water.

And just like I said, it wasn't overnight. It was. It was a process and sticking with it and developing this stuff and figuring out what works and what doesn't. You know, there's.

You know, I have a wealth of knowledge of that just because I've failed many times.

Blane Chocklett: 00:20:55

Right.

Blane Chocklett: 00:20:56

So it's. It's all about just keep. Keep at it and, you know, just don't try to dream something up. I mean, you need to really look at what.

The whole don't look through keyholes. That's another Dahlberg thing, is like walk through the door and. And have an open mind and try different things, whether it's live bait or gear or.

And then adapt that to what you want to do with a fly. And. And that's kind of where my whole life's been revolved around.

Marvin Cash: 00:21:25

Yeah, really neat. And I want to take a deep dive into the kind of. The head of the T bone, because I think that's kind of where the action is.

And I know a lot of people are interested in this. And this goes into what you touched on earlier about flow around versus flow through. You know, can you talk.

Can you talk a little bit about kind of how, you know, head size and shape and density kind of affect the swim and kind of how you can tweak that to, you know, get more of a jackknife or more of a swim.

Blane Chocklett: 00:21:50

Sure. So as you go down in size, I usually go smaller in the head size too, because, you know, when you drop down in size, a little bit goes a lot farther.

Blane Chocklett: 00:22:04

Right.

Blane Chocklett: 00:22:04

So you put a giant head on a small fly, it just gets weird and it doesn't look right and the profile's not right and all that stuff. But so if I wanted more of a. So a lot of this had to do with water flow and water conditions, like how much water, like high water, whatever.

So generally you also have to look at sync rates and all that kind of stuff. So smaller head, smaller pro, smaller dams within the fly would allow it to sink a little bit faster.

So you could get down in, in the zone a little bit quicker. But smaller head, you were not going to get as much of a jackknife.

You still got side to side movement, but you didn't get as big of a, a pause in that front.

Blane Chocklett: 00:22:48

Right.

Blane Chocklett: 00:22:48

So the bigger head design and the more dense it is, the more you're going to slow down as you strip it through the water because of the drag that's created with everything behind it. And that bigger head and that bigger head will make the fly slide off to the left or slide off to the right a little bit more and pause.

So I started learning about that and tweaking, you know, different sizes for different water situations and, and whatnot and how deep I needed to get the fly and all that kind of stuff, because all that plays into the factors on how you fish in a given day or water conditions. So that was a big part of it.

And you know, with the, with the, the T bone heads, with the reverse tie with the body tubing, I played with that for a long time.

And then, you know, brushes started becoming available and I started playing with that and figuring out what type of brushes and getting a brush machine and whatever and figuring out what brushes work for for this and that. And you know, the density of it is super important and the head shape and all that kind of stuff.

You know, I'd like more of a big bulbous head to get more of that, like slide left and right because it, it's going to. Just the thickness of it and the, in the density of this of it, it all makes, it all makes sense. Right.

So I learned all that by being on the water and tying at the vice and figuring out how I needed certain things to work during certain situations or, or different fish. You know, we've caught 50 plus inch stripers on these T bones and muskies and all kinds of stuff all over the country and world.

So I mean, it's, it's proven to be a really good platform. But it all started with Bob and his design with the beast fly.

Marvin Cash: 00:24:39

Yeah. Really neat. And so I guess too, right, if you don't do bulb and you have more of like a knife shape, you get more of a swim. Right.

Less of a jackknife.

Blane Chocklett: 00:24:46

Yes. Yep. You can get a little bit more to that swim, that swim bait motion, as long as you have a denser inner body.

And that's kind of like the evolution of that, the T bone. And then the game changer platform came from that. And then shortly after that came the bucktail changers.

And to make the bucktail change your work properly, you have to basically tie your whole fly in a bulkhead type of situation where you're leaving all the. When you've reverse tight, instead of trimming the inner, you leave all that.

So that is the density that you need to create that swim to keep divert water around the main part of the body of the fly. And that's the genesis of that. And that's where that whole concept came from was. And this is all.

If you could see the picture here, it's all like building on things you learn through fishing and tying and. And positive and negative reinforcement that you get on the water.

Marvin Cash: 00:25:48

Yeah, absolutely. And I know folks, just like folks are obsessed with the head design. You know, there are lots of different kind of shank and hook variations.

You know, do you have a handful of, you know, you know, one hook to hook, you know, where you want to place the longer shank, kind of, kind of two or three flavors of that that you can kind of share with folks and kind of tell them why they work the way they. They do.

Blane Chocklett: 00:26:10

Yeah. So like a T bone. And that's one reason I came out with that longer front shank. And that that's also why the jerk changer work so well.

So if you have a static front end, meaning that that front end does not move, and then you have materials behind it.

So you could have a front end that's rigid, meaning if you have a shank that's 4 inches long or 5 inches long or 6 inches long, you're going to get more of a glide because you're not going to have anything that moves throughout that.

And if you divert water around the body of that fly, meaning body dance or reverse tile bucktail stuff or synthetic stuff, where you have an inner material that's diverting Water around it. You're going to get more of a glide slash turn left and right.

Blane Chocklett: 00:27:01

Right.

Blane Chocklett: 00:27:01

So, so what I always like to do with a T bone style is I want to have a longer front end and then I'll generally try to put a hook in the middle. Right. It's usually right behind that.

And then I might have a shank or two shanks behind that or, or even longer feathers and whatnot behind that bigger hook that I put in the middle of the fly. So if you, if you took a say a 10 inch fly to just have a round number.

Blane Chocklett: 00:27:25

Right.

Blane Chocklett: 00:27:25

So I may have a 5 inch shank in front.

Have your big hook and then tie long feathers off the back deceiver style or in the round with bucktail or synthetic material or whatever to create that.

And then I'll have that, that head shape, that bigger bald head or whatever because I'm gonna, at that point I want more of a left to right jerk bait style motion. So that's how I do it. And you could tie it I guess more slender on the size.

But, but then you, you add, you want to add weight in the back and that's where the hook and stuff comes from and, and all that. And, but you're not. We can get, we can go down that rabbit hole.

But the, what I've learned by truly getting a glide bait is you have to have materials up front that do not recoil or act like a spring. Okay. So you have to have rigid fibers all the way through the fly so you don't get that rebounding effect which slows down motion. So it ha.

Everything has to be rigid and doesn't pulse. So bucktail pulses. I don't care what it is. But that. So all you're really getting at that point is a side to side motion.

And that's kind of what the T bone does. But if you're wanting to get like a glide where it might glide out to the left two foot or down two foot or up two foot or right two foot.

You have to tie everything back and it has to be super dense and you have to get rid of pulse. You can't have compression where fibers are moving up and down.

In breathing, you want more of a solid body to where it's not going to slow down the glide in the water.

Marvin Cash: 00:29:05

Yeah, it makes sense. It's kind of like the materials open up like an umbrella in the wrong direction. Right? Yeah.

And in terms of like you know, you know, two hook styles, you know, kind of anything there in terms of like waiting and kind of how to kind of get that tuned so that you get the action that you want.

Blane Chocklett: 00:29:23

Yeah, so I generally don't weight flies. I usually will try to place materials in the right way to make them because I feel like. And it's kind of the Gary Loomis thought process.

Weight is a deterrent of performance. So I try not to wait em. I mean sometimes weight, you need it to just get down in the zone better.

But I try to keep, I usually will do that with the different lines that I'm fishing and all that. And some people like to kill their flies. And if I have to, I just bring weight with me and adjust on the water.

But I like to keep my flies unweighted unless I'm specifically doing a certain thing like need a jigging action and having bottom contact or whatever. That's a totally different thing that we get down the road on that at some point.

But you know, you could, you can get into, you know, shank hook, shank hook kind of concept and, and, and get it to fit the profile and length and setup that you want in a certain type of fish.

Blane Chocklett: 00:30:23

Right.

Blane Chocklett: 00:30:24

So it's all about looking at that biologic makeup. The fish that you're targeting, are they graspers or are they inhalers? You know, what are those main triggers in that fish?

And that's kind of how I look at it and how I design the flies that I'm targeting these fish with.

Marvin Cash: 00:30:39

Got it. And so I'd imagine, right, if they're an inhaler, one hook usually works. But if not, you might want to have that stinger, right?

Blane Chocklett: 00:30:45

Yep. And it also, I mean if it's a huge fly, sometimes I'll put two in there just so have that insurance policy.

But you know, if you're fishing average flies from like 4 to 7 inches and you're fishing big bucket mouth fish like a, you know, targeting stripers in that 20 to 40 pound, 50 pound range, you know, 6, 7, 8 inch fly is going to go down like it's piece of popcorn, you know, so then you don't need two hooks.

But if you're, if you're fishing grasping type fish like it could be a barracuda or it could be a king mackerel or it could be a wahoo or muskie or pike or whatever or big brown trout. Then I'm gonna strategically put hooks in the middle of the fly because they usually are looking for that middle target.

So when you show profile and silhouette, they're gonna kind of hit it or t bone it in the middle. And that's where the name from the T bone came from, is it, it shows profile and they usually drop through it, hitting it from the side. T bone in it.

And that's where I start putting hooks in the middle or back middle or whatever. And it, it's paid off over the years, you know, I mean, you know, back, golly, I don't know how long it's been now.

15, 16, 18 years ago, tied this 17 inch fly and it had one hook in it. It was in the middle. And we, you know, at the time it was one of the bigger ones we got.

It was like a 54 inch muskie, you know, and it, it had him pinned pretty good. So it's all about fly placement and figuring out fish species and, you know, building that platform the way that fish needs to eat it.

Marvin Cash: 00:32:28

No, got it. And so, you know, you get the, you get the original T bone with the bucktail dialed in.

Tell us a little bit about kind of branching out and moving into the synthetic T bone.

Blane Chocklett: 00:32:38

Yeah, well, it's, that's easy, right? So I mean, I have a, I love natural materials. You know, my feather changer is still my favorite cloud, one of my favorites that I've designed.

And always like adding natural fibers and stuff into it.

But in reality you have limitations not only in size and whatever you can get, but limitations on, you know, consistency and availability of those materials. So a lot of natural materials also have some type of water absorption too. So you end up kind of losing a little bit in the end there overall.

So for me, one, not having as much time to tie and being on the water all the time and back in the day it's gotten, you know, 250 plus days a year.

And being, being a husband and father and all that stuff, you don't have that much time and you're also don't have that many hours in a day and you have to sleep at some point. So synthetics became very important to me.

And being good friends with Dahlberg and his, his mega divers and all his materials that he's designed with Hadron, it was an easy way for me to kind of slide into that realm. And you know, a lot of these other fibers came out back in the 90s.

And then, you know, Popovic using a lot of synthetics and Steve Farrar and all his stuff, who's a great fly designer in his own right, you know, getting familiar with those guys and using some of these fibers that they were using on saltwater flies. It was an easy Transition for me to say this stuff will work just as well and it's a whole lot easier to be able to replicate every time.

And it's definitely going to be easier and cheaper for the average fly tire to be able to get these materials and, and be able to tie consistently as well. So one, they hold up well. Two, they, most of them don't absorb water.

So three, it makes it easier casting and it's going to be more durable with toothy fish.

So you know, using all these different materials that are available with flashaboos and, and Larry's nylon materials that he, all these different styles of nylon materials that he had just, it was, it was an easy transition and it made a lot of sense because at the end of the day we're always trying to make something a little bit better and easier. And that's where that really came from. And it was just a no brainer to just add that to the, I guess, body of work.

Marvin Cash: 00:35:25

Yeah, it gave you all those colors too.

And I know one thing you and I have talked about and I've heard you talk about it, you know, when you're teaching is you know, you know how you strategically place smooth versus textured fibers in the fly to affect the swim. You want to talk a little bit about that?

Blane Chocklett: 00:35:41

Yeah, absolutely. So if you take like kinky fiber or whatever material, like kink nylon, it could be wig hair or whatever.

Any type of material that's curly, it's like curly hair versus straight hair or flat material versus material that like riding a roller coaster, it's up and down and wavy. Wavy material slows down water flow.

Blane Chocklett: 00:36:08

Right.

Blane Chocklett: 00:36:09

So if you want have something that glides more, you're going to want to have more flex flatter fibers, much like Mylar or Lashabu, that stuff glides.

Anything that's slick and flatter is a much better option to have something that's, that you want to glide in the water or turn easier or swim easier in the water. The combination of that and the deterrent of water flow through the middle of the fly, you have the best of both worlds.

And that's kind of where the jerk changer came from. And, and learning from all this stuff back way back when, it just made sense. Because if you take a hen saddle for example, versus a rooster.

So rooster saddle looks similar, but it's different.

Blane Chocklett: 00:36:55

Right.

Blane Chocklett: 00:36:56

So it's, it's more airy, it's not as compact, it's not, doesn't have the web in there, which, that's what makes hen saddle work.

So well for the feather changers and any type of fly, or say, Bop Popovic Semper Fly Schloppen, for example, it's a, it's a, it's a much denser feather. And it, it's.

If you look at the way the fibers are too, when it's tied in and wrapped, it holds its material together more densely, but it also, water flows over that so, so smoothly because the, the fibers are so slow, slick and flatter.

So I started learning that, coming up with the feather changer and not understanding why that works so much better than some of the other kinkier materials I was using with synthetics and having to work a little bit harder to get the swimming action I wanted. So slicker, flatter fibers are much better to get an easier swim as long as it's dense enough and diverts water around the middle of the fly.

Marvin Cash: 00:38:01

Got it. And so, you know, we've got kind of the original T bone and the synthetics.

And I, you know, I know one of the advantages of the synthetics is you can time and make them monstrously large because you don't have to go find bucktail that's 14 inches long. But, but I also know, right, that, you know, each of those flies is a platform. They have kind of different weight and hang characteristics.

And I was kind of curious, you know, if you could talk a little bit about like, you know, when you like to fish an original T bone versus when you might, you know, want that lighter, you know, synthetic T bone, you know, putting the size factor to the side.

Blane Chocklett: 00:38:38

Yeah. So I mean, one windy conditions versus normal conditions. I mean, bucktails are great.

And when you have the materials to use to make them the way you want to make them, they're good. Uh, you do run in to some buoyancy issues with bucktails, is the inner workings of bucktail. They're hollow.

So you do have some type of neutral buoyant, I guess, consistency to bucktail with that, because they do have. They are hollow.

Blane Chocklett: 00:39:11

Right.

Blane Chocklett: 00:39:12

Even, you know, throughout it, they have some little bit of neutral buoyant to buoyant quality about them. Synthetic, especially nylon type of fibers, they're generally gonna sink faster and they can get you in the zone quicker.

So a lot of times when I'm using or needing to get in a deeper situation or heavier currents or whatever, a synthetic is a much better option for that because you will be able to get down a little bit faster. Cause it's gonna sink a little bit quicker if you use the right stuff.

Um, and that would be like ultra hairs and big fly fiber and a lot of these synthetic materials that have that more of a nylon base. Um, so you could use polypropylene style stuff. That's gonna add more buoyancy. And that would be a negative to that, actually. But that's another.

That's a synthetic version that would mimic doing a reverse tie with bucktail.

Because then you're using a fiber that's hydrophobic, really, and will kind of stay in that type of zone and get that same hover that you would normally get from like deer body or bucktail or whatnot.

Marvin Cash: 00:40:28

Got it. And so, you know, in terms of tying the T bone or there, you know, as you know, you've been. You've taught the pattern a lot.

You know, are there like two or three kind of common mistakes you see folks make at the vise when they're trying to tie the pattern?

Blane Chocklett: 00:40:41

Yeah, I mean, some of the bigger problems that I see is how much material they put on each. Like, you can build up too much bulk, so a little bit goes a long way. Especially when you're.

You're building a 12 plus inch platform, you can using, you know, the body dams in the middle. Just putting less material to veil around the whole thing and moving to the next step. To the next step, to the next step.

A little bit and less in the back and a little bit more as you get to the front is a much better way of doing it. And how they attach the materials to it as well.

Like what I do with the, with the T bone is, you know, I'll do that body dam and then I'll move the thread forward and create a thread dam and leaving a little bit of a. Like a, A hollow or a gap, which creates, I guess, like a. I don't know, like a. I don't know, what would you call it? Like a little bit of a.

Marvin Cash: 00:41:49

You got like a notch, right?

Blane Chocklett: 00:41:51

Yeah, it is a notch, but creating a thread dam in between the thread dam. And then you have a, A lower, like, divot area where I can then spin the deer hair around it so it doesn't want to creep forward.

So it all butts up against the body dam.

Blane Chocklett: 00:42:10

Right.

Blane Chocklett: 00:42:10

So it's going to get its true profile and not get slipped forward where it just starts slipping. And you kind of. You're losing that spreader dam effect at that point.

Blane Chocklett: 00:42:22

Right.

Blane Chocklett: 00:42:23

So that's a. That's a huge deal with that for me. And just putting too much material on in one spot.

And it's always better to Have a lot less material in the back and start building especially in the shoulder area and then the head. That's kind of where the most important part of it is, where you want to create a little bit more material.

And a lot of that's just time on the bice and learning from mistakes and just, you know, repetition.

Marvin Cash: 00:42:52

Yeah.

And so just to maybe help people, if you take like, I don't know, let's just say like a 6 or 8 inch T bone, you know, and we'll just talk about pencils of deer hair like from the back to the front. Like, you know, what would you, what would the, how many pencils would you have in the back and how many would you put in the shoulder and the head?

Blane Chocklett: 00:43:08

Yeah, so in the back you would go pencil. And then, you know, if you broke it up into quarters, like the back quarter would be pencil. You get to the middle quarter.

Probably look at, I wouldn't say like a mat, you know, like a, a sharpie size. You'd probably go in between that and then you start getting into that, that front shoulder head area.

I'd be looking at sharpie size portions of material to be able to, you know, spin around that. Those body dams.

I think that'd be a really good analogy to kind of let people kind of focus on so, you know, pencil dam size in the back, in between sharpie and pencil in the middle and then definitely sharpie size in the, in the, in the front section.

Marvin Cash: 00:43:56

Yeah. And in terms of maybe like a trick for like the angle you want on the dams, because I mean, you can kind of make them any kind of angle you want to.

Right. You can make them high or low. And I know you want to kind of build more profile as you move to the front. Kind of kind of a rough roadmap there.

Blane Chocklett: 00:44:11

Yeah, sure. So obviously you're going to want less profile in the back. So I'm going to, I'm going to.

I usually would start maybe with a reverse tie or two in the back because I know that's going to collapse over time and, and water flow over is going to, it's going to compress more.

And then as I go forward, I'm going to add a little bit more angle and height to it, you know, and then as I get forward, you, you could go anywhere from 45 to 90, you know, or 60 and kind of graduate up as you go forward. And you know, that's, that's kind of that general rule there. So I might even where I put longer bucktails and I mean Longer feathers in the back.

I may just tie that first part, just standard tie in bucktail. And then the next part, I'll, I'll do a, a reverse tie with not as much support. And then the next one above that, maybe a little bit more support.

And then I go into the, the spreader dam deal where I'm going to get you know, more of a maybe 35 degree, then 45 and then 55, 65 and whatnot, until you might. At the end, it may almost be standing straight up.

Blane Chocklett: 00:45:26

Right.

Blane Chocklett: 00:45:26

So, and then all the.

Obviously, you know, as water flow flows over it and compression and you strip it into the water, it's going to have a huge profile, but it's going to have that, that bait fish profile that you're looking for. Right. So you're, you don't want to have a huge profile in the back and get skinnier in the middle and skinnier up front.

That doesn't look like a fish at all.

Blane Chocklett: 00:45:48

Right.

Blane Chocklett: 00:45:49

So you just kind of have to imagine what the profile of the bait that you're trying to mimic looks like. And, you know, that's a big part of it as well.

Marvin Cash: 00:45:56

Yeah, got it. And so, you know, I know they're probably not a lot of tools. I have a couple I could probably think of.

But, you know, are there any kind of special tools that make tying the t bone a whole lot easier or like, any special resins or anything like that?

Blane Chocklett: 00:46:10

Yeah, I mean, one. A lighter is huge. So you, you've gotta have a lighter to be able to not let that material fray. So I singed the ends to make that work.

Blane Chocklett: 00:46:22

Right.

Blane Chocklett: 00:46:22

So you also have those push tools that are readily available to push bucktail. If you want to reverse tie them. That. Those things are great. There's many different versions of those out there.

And if you don't have that, you can just take a, like a big pin and take the butt cap off and, and use that to push bucktail back over itself to get, get it to push back evenly and then you can tie in front of it or whatnot. Um, you know, and as far as resins go, I mean, there's so many different resins that I like.

And you know, I use loom products and I've, I've used all of them. But, you know, one of the main ingredients that I think super important are the flexible resins, because you can fix a lot of problems.

Like if something's not setting right and it's kind of kinked off to the side and it's not following the flow of the other bucktail, you could do a cheat and pull it back to get the shape you want and then put some resin around the front of the bucktail or synthetic and then hit it with the light with you slightly holding it in place.

And then it looks like you're a professional tire, you know, so there's, there's a lot of cheats out there for, for people if they're not getting, you know, even the beast fly, if you're not getting it to act exactly the way you want. And you know, everything's in like left, right, top and bottom.

I mean, left, top and bottom is good, but the right side's kinked out way to the way out to the side and it's not holding right.

You can just put a little bit of resin right over there and hold the, hold it in position and hit it with the light and you'll set it and angle it to the, to the angle that you want it to be.

Marvin Cash: 00:47:59

Yeah, it's like brill cream.

Blane Chocklett: 00:48:00

Right?

Marvin Cash: 00:48:00

A little dab will do you.

Blane Chocklett: 00:48:02

Little dab will do you. Yep.

Marvin Cash: 00:48:04

So, you know, in terms of fishing the fly, like, where do you generally like to fish the t bone and the water column and kind of what are your pre line and leader setups to get the action that you want?

Blane Chocklett: 00:48:15

Yeah, so that's all going to be determined on water flow, seasonal changes and how the fish are.

Blane Chocklett: 00:48:21

Right.

Blane Chocklett: 00:48:22

So I would say in general, I'm going to want it. So fishing 10 foot of water, I'm going to want at least anywhere from around that 5 foot to 6 foot range.

You know, if you got heavy flows, that's going to be dictated heavily on the lines that you choose.

Blane Chocklett: 00:48:41

Right.

Blane Chocklett: 00:48:42

So I could use, and I like essay lines, scientific angler stuff. And there's times where I'm using intermediates when we have no flow and water's low clear.

I'll use intermediates with a little bit longer leader using fluorocarbon because it has a little bit faster sink rate and whatnot. And you know, the cores, the lines make a huge difference on how flies will sink. And we can get into a long discussion on that.

But in general, I'm gonna have three lines with you. I'm gonna have a faster intermediate or four lines. I'm gonna have a more of a slower intermediate. I'm gonna have a, a sinking line that's got a.

Just a sink tip with more of a hovering running line behind it.

And then I'm gonna have a heavy sinking line with a, with a more Aggressive intermediate running line behind it where it, I've got more contact throughout it. And that's when I'm trying to get deeper. Water's deeper, fish are deeper, current's faster, that kind of situation.

So I look at it in that, those aspects and you know, you can never, it's never going to work out where you have one line that's going to do everything for you. I mean that to me, flies are the most important part of fishing and the lines that we use are the second most important.

So the fly lines are everything. And it's like using the right tool for the job or the wrong tool for the job. Right tool jobs much easier.

Wrong tool jobs 10 times longer and more hard. But a lot harder.

Marvin Cash: 00:50:21

Yeah. And in terms of kind of leader construction, what do you like to do there?

Blane Chocklett: 00:50:26

Yeah, so I mean it all, it all depends on what I'm doing. But say if we're talking musky stuff, I mean, I keep that part simple.

Like coming off the leader, I might go 40 to 30 and then the wire and not use them on sinking line. Not using much more than like 5 to 6 foot of, of leader material. And then you have your bite, right. Which is usually 18, 20 inches.

Like a 20 inch bite's pretty standard for me to start, you know. But if I'm using intermediate to floating lines, you gotta have more of a taper to kind of get that turnover.

And then, you know, then I'm gonna taper down and kind of on that lefty cray rule where I do 50, 25, 25 or 50% would be a heavy butt to turn it over and then 25% taper. And then the other 25% would be your, your tippet or bite wire.

So say a scenario I might use with whatever line it might be, it could be 50 to 60 pound tapering down from there with the other 25%.

So took a 10 foot leader, you, you'd have 5 foot of 50 pound and then you might have 12 inches of 40, and then 12 inches 30, and then you go to your, your, your bite. Something like that. That's, that's kind of a simple way that I go about it and it seems to work for me.

And they get to work for most everybody got it.

Marvin Cash: 00:51:55

And so it sounds like you really like to fish the T bone kind of like midway to like the bottom middle of the water column.

Blane Chocklett: 00:52:01

Yeah, I mean, it could be, it'd be more mid to upper. Because glide baits a lot of times work really well from mid upper side. But If I have to go super deep, I will.

And you know, I'm not against putting a, putting a weight in front of one, but then it's changing the action. So it all depends on what I'm really trying to get.

If I'm just trying to get down in the zone fishing for stripers and a, a rip that they may be down 20ft, but they're eating big bunker, they're 12 plus inches long. And it, you know, for me at that point I might take something from the conventional world.

Sinking line set up way above them, drift with, with the current and whatnot and throw up stream, let it sink fast, maybe even use an egg weight on a loop.

Like what I'll do is a lot of times I'll take an egg sinker, I'll do a loop knot and on the bottom end of the loop knot, before I run it back through the loops tied off, I'll put a egg sinker on there and cinch it and tie it down. That way you're getting more of that clouds or jigging action with it too.

But it's also diving it down into that zone to get that fish's attention, to make it easier for them to see what you're throwing at them, you know, so there's, there's all kinds of ways of always having the right stuff on the, on the boat, adapting to the water fish, whatever it may be.

I mean, it's always like you got to be prepared for different situations scenario, especially as seasonal changes happen in weather and waters and water temperatures and all that kind of stuff.

Marvin Cash: 00:53:34

Yeah, absolutely. So we kind of, we have the fly, we have the leader, we have the line.

You know, any tricks you can kind of share with folks about how you, you know, animate the, the line and the rod to get the action in the T bone that you like?

Blane Chocklett: 00:53:47

Sure.

So if I'm looking for more of a glide style and more of a side, more of a slide, I would be drifting with the current, kind of throwing it slightly ahead to adjacent and you know, doing a long downward strip with the rod.

I, I'd add the rod a little bit parallel to the water and as I strip, slap the rod tip towards the water surface with a, with a strip away and the rod. So if I have my hands together in front of me, I'd strip down with the, I'd push down with the rod tip and strip away with both hands.

So if I'm together with my hands, I'd strip away about two feet. So what that does is that generates Movement towards you.

But what happens too is it'll create slack at the end of that strip because that, that push down with the rod and that generation of movement forward that brings that fly. But you also get a little bit of slack as it comes at you.

Blane Chocklett: 00:54:56

Right.

Blane Chocklett: 00:54:56

So that allows that fly to slide. If I'm trying to get more of a swim bait action, I may put the rod under my arm and do a two hand strip with a pause.

Which if you do a quick couple strips hand over hand, it's going to create a lot of motion forward.

And if you stop abruptly, it's going to kick off to the side or up or down and you get that same, you get a swim bait action with a jerk bait action with that. So and then you could do the straight, you know, two strips, pause, one long strip pause.

And I do that strip a lot where you're getting like that herky jerky left right motion with a pause. And then you make that long strip after that. So you get a run away and then pause motion.

And those are kind of the three that I like to use quite often. And generally one of those three will work throughout the day. Um, but sometimes you might have to adjust in between. Depends on what's going on.

Marvin Cash: 00:55:54

Yeah, they're, they're such accommodating fish, right?

Blane Chocklett: 00:55:58

Yeah. That not just them, I mean a lot of different fish species, but Yeah, I mean learning on that platform taught me.

You know, sometimes when you're big brown trout hunting, I mean, you gotta use these same tactics, they both work.

Blane Chocklett: 00:56:12

Right.

Blane Chocklett: 00:56:12

So when you're targeting apex predators that don't have to eat because they're so good at what they do, they've survived and they've gotten to be that apex predator.

You've gotta create these triggers not only with the fly that you're throwing and understanding how that fish is designed to eat, but you're also trying to make a fish that doesn't need to eat, want to eat. And you gotta always think about that while you're fishing.

Blane Chocklett: 00:56:35

Right.

Blane Chocklett: 00:56:35

So you know, I'm always putting myself in that fly.

Blane Chocklett: 00:56:39

Right.

Blane Chocklett: 00:56:40

So fish is behind it. How do I need to make this fly swim the way this fish is gonna want it to be able to eat it.

Blane Chocklett: 00:56:47

Right.

Blane Chocklett: 00:56:48

So sometimes it's being a gnat and just keep putting it in those spots where you know they are until they eat. And sometimes it's doing that fight or flight scenario where you're triggering that, that eat by speed and running away from them.

And sometimes it's pause and pop and Stop where it's, you know, you get their attention, it's in their zone. Build of awareness longer and you are giving them more of a reason to say, maybe I gotta, maybe I should go check that out.

Blane Chocklett: 00:57:21

Right.

Blane Chocklett: 00:57:21

So you just kind of always gotta adapt to what you're seeing. Adapt to water temperatures, adapt to ambient light, water flows, all that kind of stuff.

Marvin Cash: 00:57:31

Yeah, absolutely. Super helpful. And you know, I know you've been incredibly busy at the chocolate factory.

I mean, one, because I talk to you and two, because I watch social media. You want to kind of let folks know kind of the most recent developments and kind of what's in the pipeline.

Blane Chocklett: 00:57:47

Sure. So there's a lot of stuff, man. I'm, as you know, I work with asga, which is American Saltwater Gods association.

And being the fact that we lost Bob Popovic earlier, later last year, I thought it was.

I thought it'd be really important since we lost Lefty a few years ago, that we would, I would try and Dave Whitlock for that matter, and many others that we've lost here in the recent years, that it'd be really important to me because all these guys, all these legends, I was so lucky to fall in the right place at the right time to have these people be mentors and friends of mine, that it was very important to one, pay homage to them and, and honor their. What they left for us all. And two, to make sure that we have. We pay attention to the ones we still have.

So I got together with the ASGA team and Tony the director and said, I want to bring back Lefty Tie Fest, which we. It was a big event that we put on, on the Eastern Shore of Maryland.

And you know, me and Clouser and Papa Vicks and Lefty and Ed Javaroski and many others would just come down out of the love of fly fishing and, and put on a day where we tie flies and just hang out with people that would come and the benefits would go to conservation. So I was like, I want to get all these people together. So I started making phone calls. I.

I got in touch with Flip, I got in touch with dberg Clouser, Andy Mill, Chico Fernandez, many others. There's Oliver White, Hillary Hutchinson, Carter Andrews, all these older legends that built.

That built a platform us to be able to do what we do now and decided that we're going to have this event in Vero beach. And what we're going to be doing is we're bringing all these legends that I just brought up and bringing them together to say thank you.

And one we have Lefty Craze documentary that's coming out through Fly Fishermen and the Outdoor Channel and think BTNT and Bass Pro Shop. Just several people put money up to make this documentary happen with Jay Nichols filming it and editing it and putting it all together.

And I was fortunate enough to be a part of it. So we're having a, a film. We're going to be not the, the first premiere, but one of the, one of the first premieres.

This event's going to be April 25 and 26 in Vero Beach, Florida. We're having Lefty's film on the 25th, which is Friday night at a film at a movie theater there.

And this the, the day of the event, which will be a fly fishing festival that's going to be called Lefty Craze Tie Fest where we've got all the big brands like YETI and Costa and Patagonia and many others Decked and Scientific Angler and all of them are going to be involved.

And we'll have these people, like I said, Dahlberg and Flip and Chico and like I said, many others are going to be there just where we could just get them all together and appreciate who we still have. And all the, all the proceeds are going to be going to Jack Crevel research.

So for those that don't know ASGA is all about protecting our fish and our coastal fish and making sure that the fisheries are healthy and getting science done to make sure we give the policymakers the right stuff so they can make educated decisions to that's beneficial to the health of our fish and fisheries. So Jack Crevel, just like our ALBI project that we've been doing for a while, Jack Revel have no regulations on them.

So I thought it'd be a great idea to have this event. April 25 through 26 and 27.

White's tackle down in Florida has a fly fishing tournament day after our event to kind of just have a good time and, and whatnot. But it also is during the Jack or Val migration, which is an unbelievable thing.

So, you know, I just wanted to be all about my heroes and, and pay it paying homage to the ones we still have and wanting to let them know that we appreciate them and, and raise money in the same, same aspect. And all that money will go to the Jack Cavell research that ASGA has put up with the help of Florida International and Mississippi State.

And we're going to get Jax protected.

You know, we're going to do tagging and DNA studies and telemetry stuff so we, we know more about them so we can give this information to all the policy makers so we can get regulations put on these fish because they're an amazing fish. It's, they've been, they've been. I've been, I've, I've had been on many calls.

I'm doing a film on them where people have always said they're day savers for guides when they're fishing for tarpon or whatever and things aren't just happening. So they go out and they go chase jacks around and it, it makes a day for them.

Blane Chocklett: 01:03:27

Right.

Blane Chocklett: 01:03:27

So, you know, jacks are one of the most underrated fish species on the planet, but they're also one of the most fun and strongest fish that I've ever experienced.

And you know, I just really happy that all this stuff has come together and like I said, all these brands like Yeti and that's helped out and making this thing happen.

This is going to be almost like a once in a lifetime event and there's going to be limited amount of people that it's almost like semi private on the way. We're going to do it just because it's on a private property.

But it's going to be a big, small event and it's, it's going to be something super special in the fishing community.

Marvin Cash: 01:04:07

That's really neat and I'll drop a link to that in the show notes. But I also know too that you've just released a ton of new tying materials, right?

Blane Chocklett: 01:04:14

Yeah, I did. You know, my whole life hasn't been of all revolved around muskies and giant stuff.

I mean I started with trout and that was a big part of my guiding business forever. And smallmouth bass being in Virginia with the, all the great warm water rivers that we have around here.

You know, I've had a lot of these flies over the years that I put out.

But you know, as time goes by and things come around, you see opportunity and you know, like, you know, I came out with my Damsel fly patterns 20, 20 plus years ago and they've been featured in magazines with, in fly tire and Whatnot with Boyd Pfeiffer was one of the first writers that ever came to visit me and wrote about my flies with my disc sliders and stuff and wrote about my damsels and dragonflies and stuff like that. And that stuff gets lost.

You know, we've talked about that with, you know, sometimes people come along, you don't see the history and whatnot that's been around and you know, I just with the opportunity of 3D printing and whatnot, you know, I've always kind of been frustrated with wings and stuff on bugs and you know how I am with movement and stuff. So I came out with these 3D printed wings that I'm able to use on these flies to make the profile silhouette perfect.

But I'll also, as you know I want to put movement in them and I've, you know, I'm punching a hole in the base of the wing where it attached to the body and using synthetic materials as a.

Almost as a shock absorber slash articulation to where these wings will move on the water and also fold back during casting to make casting not a problem. And they're. The wings are hollow so you see the vein effect but the wind will travel through it. So it's not going to be more of that.

It won't be that spinning effect that you get with solid materials. So there's, you know, I wouldn't come out with it if it didn't think it made it better. And they're almost indestructible.

And then you know, the body parts like the helgermite body parts, you know the, the hellgramite changers and the crawl changers have been instrumental in my guiding the past 10, 12, 15 years.

And you know, I've been hand cutting stuff to make things work and you know, gotten into this, you know with the my fly company being able to get things done and now we have these body parts that's just going to make not only my flies tied faster with my factory, but also makes it a lot easier for the tire out there. So with you know, times money, right. So people don't have as much time and my flies are generally involved, very involved and take time.

So I want to make that tying process more enjoyable and more efficient while they're, while they're on the bike. So super excited about the crawl changer bodies. We got shrimp stuff coming, crab stuff coming.

The 3D wings are out now along with the helger mite and crawl bodies.

And you know there's a whole lot of like 30 plus years of stuff I've been sitting on that's finally going to be hitting the market here over the next couple years.

Marvin Cash: 01:07:29

It's really neat. So folks should either go to the chocolate factory or go to one of your dealers, right?

Blane Chocklett: 01:07:35

Yes sir, absolutely.

Marvin Cash: 01:07:37

Yeah. And I'll try to, I'll definitely drop a link to the chocolate factory and I'll see if I can pull together all the links for all your dealers.

I know it's a small group, but it is growing a little bit every day.

And you know, Blaine, before I let you go, you want to let folks know if they want to kind of learn more about the chocolate factory and kind of what you're doing at the vice and on the water where they should go.

Blane Chocklett: 01:07:56

Yeah. So you can reach me at blainechocolatefishing on Instagram or Facebook.

I have that website, you know, Blain chocolate.com then the, the Shopify store that's attached to all that stuff. And like I said, we have many great dealers including Mad River Outfitters, Schultz Outfitters, Saltwater Edge.

We have, you know, the Fishhawk in Atlanta. We're got kind of have dealers strategically place all through the country and adding a few here and there, not wanting to leave anybody out.

TCO and Pennsylvania region and bears den up in that New England area and along with Saltwater Edge and Rhode island and then we have some dealers for opening up out west a little bit and looking to expand it a little bit more here in the future. And you know, it's just about putting out good quality flies and not, you know, trying to mass produce.

I want all the flies to be the quality that I want and the materials are a big part of that and the materials are a lot easier to control over than hand tied flies. So that's kind of part of the whole thing too.

So, you know, you could reach out to me or my dealers and I know I've left a few out, but I'm more than happy to talk to anybody that wants to reach out about any dealers that might be near them that I didn't mention.

Marvin Cash: 01:09:26

Yeah, I know the one closest to me is probably Tailwaters and in Bluff City. But also too, you know, you've got some pretty cool apparel, right?

Blane Chocklett: 01:09:35

Yep, yep. So yeah, we've gotten into that a little bit.

I've got some cool hats that we designed with the, the game changer logos and T shirts and sun shirts and hoodies and whatnot.

And we've, we've got, you know, a bunch of different products that we're going to be gradually releasing over time too that working with some of my companies that sponsor me and whatnot. So yeah, stay tuned to all that stuff.

We, you know, we're just in the beginning of this Choco factory is only a year old and we're excited about the future and I can't wait to share with everybody that stuff that I've learned and from friends and whatnot and stuff I've learned on my own over the years and yeah, gonna be a good time. And I think we. We got some cool stuff to share with everybody.

Marvin Cash: 01:10:23

Yeah. I mean, an Easter will be here before you know it, so you need to get your game changer socks. Right.

Blane Chocklett: 01:10:28

There you go. Yep, got those two, man. Gotta go to church or business wearing your game changer socks. Gotta change that game.

Marvin Cash: 01:10:36

That's exactly right. It'll definitely change your game. Well, listen, Blaine, I super appreciate you making the time to.

To be the first episode on the butcher shop, and I super appreciate all of your friendship and support over the years.

Blane Chocklett: 01:10:48

You too, buddy.

I'm very honored that you had me and love what you're doing and keep doing it because you're just adding to that body of work that we all striving to kind of make sure make this fort better than what it was before we got here.

Marvin Cash: 01:11:02

Yeah, I appreciate it. Well, listen, you take care and I'll see you soon.

Blane Chocklett: 01:11:06

Thanks. You too.

Marvin Cash: 01:11:08

Well, folks, we hope you enjoyed the interview as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you. Don't forget to check out the links to all of this episode's sponsors in the show notes. Fish Hard, folks.